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============================================================= RoundTable Conference (RTC) RESUME WORKSHOP HOSB - RTC - Sept. 27, 1993 GUESTS: JOHN MAIHOS and MICHAEL HOLZSCHU ============================================================= <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Welcome all to the RTC on Resumes! <JOHN.MAIHOS> Mike and I are both personnel-type folks and here to help. <JOHN.MAIHOS> disconnected. <[Dave] D.HAIG> Nobody's perfect! <[Janet] J.ATTARD> oops <[Janet] J.ATTARD> He'll be right back, I'm sure <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> We seem to have lost John for a moment! <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> In the mean time... <[Jeff] J.MINES> Call Waiting at work... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> I'm a personnel systems consultant... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> specializing in setting up the personnel functions within companies. <JOHN.MAIHOS> I'm back. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Welcome back John ! <[Dave] D.HAIG> Welcome back John! <[Jeff] J.MINES> welcome back <JOHN.MAIHOS> Don't know what happened. <JOHN.MAIHOS> O.K....Mike, did you introduce yourself? <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Let's start with the aspect of what a resume should look like from an appearance standpoint. John? <JOHN.MAIHOS> Appearance is very important. <JOHN.MAIHOS> To start with.. <JOHN.MAIHOS> the paper should be clean of all fingerprints. <JOHN.MAIHOS> Don't laugh... <JOHN.MAIHOS> I've recieved crinkled sheets.... <JOHN.MAIHOS> stained sheets. <JOHN.MAIHOS> etc. <[Dave] D.HAIG> What about perforated sheets from a computer? <JOHN.MAIHOS> Treat each resume as a picture of yourself that you are proud of. <JOHN.MAIHOS> I'd stay away from obious perf paper. <JOHN.MAIHOS> Some of the better paper hides the perfs really well. <JOHN.MAIHOS> Paper is petty important. <JOHN.MAIHOS> Some suggest you stick to white only. <JOHN.MAIHOS> I'm not as strict. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> I conducted an experiment recently.... <JOHN.MAIHOS> I kinda like the variety., <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Sent out resumes on standard computor paper vs. Good Bond paper... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Results.. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> No response to the computor paper.... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Five calls on Bond out of ten.. Same # of resumes sent out. <JOHN.MAIHOS> Interesting. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Questions? <[Dave] D.HAIG> That might just save me! <JOHN.MAIHOS> Go ahead Joni <[Joni] NASS> Hmmm... with regard to paper.... <[Joni] NASS> In the 18 years that I've been in the office services business... <[Joni] NASS> computer paper has never been used rather,... <[Joni] NASS> a special laser 20% rag bond.... <[Joni] NASS> in colors: White, Ivory and Gray... and about 99.6% of all people choose the Ivory over the others and a few choose white and only a handful the gray <JOHN.MAIHOS> That's the way to go! <[Joni] NASS> The theory is.... <[Joni] NASS> that white could get lost in a sea of papers on an exec's desk <[Joni] NASS> The gray is a "down" color <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> The quality of the paper says alot about you and your image of yourself. And the color indicates somewhat your personality. <[Joni] NASS> and the Ivory is probably a nice forward but still quiet color that will sell and still stand out. <JOHN.MAIHOS> I've seen some very nice blue paper. <[Joni] NASS> Does anyone have any ideas about blue? <[Joni] NASS> Do you like blue? <[Joni] NASS> it's a cool color <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> In the midwest... <[Joni] NASS> Ivory is a warm color <JOHN.MAIHOS> I have no problem with a light blue. <[Dave] D.HAIG> Is it expensive to have an agency print oh say about 100 copies of your resume for you? <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Blue is not a color to use. <JOHN.MAIHOS> One sec Dave. <[Joni] NASS> Thanks Mike... <[Dave] D.HAIG> No Prob <JOHN.MAIHOS> Interesting. From my point of views... <JOHN.MAIHOS> I have no problem with blue. <JOHN.MAIHOS> Color is very important though and if Mike say NO BLUE. Don't use blue! <JOHN.MAIHOS> I believe Janet is next. <[Janet] J.ATTARD> What about color. If people have one of the low cost color printers, should they put their name in color? <JOHN.MAIHOS> Mike, what's your opinion? <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> No color in the midwest..... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Here the job search... <[Gary] G.WARREN5> ! <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> is dictated by many conservative companys.... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Any color is construed as flamboyant... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> and to far out. <JOHN.MAIHOS> I agree with Mike. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Unless... <JOHN.MAIHOS> Dave,. you had a question. <JOHN.MAIHOS> Oops . one more sec' <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> You are applying for a graphics position with some one and then you may get away with it.... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Maybe.. <JOHN.MAIHOS> Good point. <JOHN.MAIHOS> An interesting aside.... <JOHN.MAIHOS> Today I received five resumes. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> The industry that you are applying to dictates what you can do. <JOHN.MAIHOS> One of them had a picture of the candidate on the resume. <JOHN.MAIHOS> I didn't like it at all. <JOHN.MAIHOS> Not that the fellow wasn't o.k. looking... <JOHN.MAIHOS> it was just a staement on his part that I didn't like. <JOHN.MAIHOS> statement. <JOHN.MAIHOS> All set on this topic, Mike? <[Joni] NASS> I think that the most important part of a resume is the information and the way it is laid out so that it is grasped quickly and easily by the reader... too much fluff is not needed... from both my standpoint as an employer and having been around resumes for a long time. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Questions anyone? <[Gary] G.WARREN5> ! <JOHN.MAIHOS> Dave is next. <[Dave] D.HAIG> Is it very expensive to have your resume printed professionally? <JOHN.MAIHOS> Expensive is relative. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Dave.... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> John is right... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> You can spend a fortune on printing... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> But if it's not constucted right it won't make a difference. <[Dave] D.HAIG> I understand <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Joni... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> What are the prices in your area? <[Joni] NASS> Mike... <[Joni] NASS> and all. <<[Joni] NASS> In our area -- ... <[Joni] NASS> you get 3 laser originals... and then the laser originals after that... <[Joni] NASS> are $1.00/page. however.... <[Joni] NASS> if you want 25, 50 or 100... then <[Joni] NASS> there is pricing on 3 different packages: <[Joni] NASS> 25 offset printed resumes are $20.95/page <[Joni] NASS> 50 are $28.98 <[Joni] NASS> 100 are $31.40 <JOHN.MAIHOS> That's quite reasonable. <[Joni] NASS> that is a per page price <[Joni] NASS> so, if you have a 2-page resume... then your cost for 25 would be $41.90 plus tax, of course. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> So for a two page resume double? <[Joni] NASS> Yep. <JOHN.MAIHOS> I recommend a professionally printed resume. <[Joni] NASS> Blank cover sheets and envelopes are also available. <JOHN.MAIHOS> There is just one problem in my opinion.... <[Dave] D.HAIG> Mine was constructed professionally, I just didn't have any copies made. Wasn't aware that paper played such a big part! <JOHN.MAIHOS> Theproblem I see is.... <JOHN.MAIHOS> if you are trying to tailor your resume... <JOHN.MAIHOS> it can get pretty expesnive this way. <JOHN.MAIHOS> BUT it will be well-worth it if you land the right job! <JOHN.MAIHOS> You can alwasy tailor your cover letter. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> I feel the point here is DON"T skimp on the paper!! Small point but IMPORTANT! <JOHN.MAIHOS> O.K. <[Gary] G.WARREN5> What about the use of different fonts on a resume. Is that considered gaudy or should the type be more conservative? <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> John? <JOHN.MAIHOS> In my opinion, script is out...except... <JOHN.MAIHOS> to highlight something -very- important. <JOHN.MAIHOS> Kinda like using underline... <JOHN.MAIHOS> only when necessary. <JOHN.MAIHOS> I prefer something easy to read. <JOHN.MAIHOS> As Mike said earlier... <JOHN.MAIHOS> if you are applying for a graphic artist job.. <JOHN.MAIHOS> it's a different story. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> If you are reponding to an ad.... <JOHN.MAIHOS> Mike. any comments? <[Gary] G.WARREN5> But use bold type for names,topics, etc... <JOHN.MAIHOS> YES. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> You don't have much time to make an impression... <JOHN.MAIHOS> Your name in bold (all caps) is fine. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> So keep it clean... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> neat... <[Gary] G.WARREN5> Ive got a resume program that helps you genereate all that <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> and easy to read and follow. <JOHN.MAIHOS> Anything else on that Mike? <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Joni may have a statement on Fonts. Joni? <[Joni] NASS> Fonts.... <[Gary] G.WARREN5> It is the resume kit. I think the company is better working s/w. Very flexible. Good one. <[Joni] NASS> Serifs (such as Times Roman, Palatino, etc. are more readable than san serifs (such as Helevitica) <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Janet had the next question. <[Joni] NASS> IMHO a mix of 2 ususally OK.to use Times or Palatino for body type and Helevitica or Optima for headings/name, etc. Headings are for instance Work Experience, Job Objective, etc. <[Joni] NASS> Don't experiement too much with fonts. Keep it simple. <JOHN.MAIHOS> Agreed! <JOHN.MAIHOS> go ahead M.SH <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Right on target! <M.SH> I'd like to address those mysterious psycolgogical tests...! <JOHN.MAIHOS> owww <JOHN.MAIHOS> I've taken them before! <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> The ones that no answer is wrong!!! <JOHN.MAIHOS> What would you like to know? <M.SH> Once a second interview takes place, how are these tests REALLE evaluated? <JOHN.MAIHOS> Go ahead Mike. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> M.SH... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> First of all the companys that specialize... <M.SH> Yes and the real name is Michel... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> in these tests, ask the same questions.. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> the company requesting that the test be done... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> set the parameters as to what range of .... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> answers fall into the acceptable area.... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> This is usually based upon having a group of employees... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> within the company take the exam... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> to set the acceptable range. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> So the same questions can be asked but you won't know what is the right answer... <[MICHEL] M.SH> But are they usually aimed at personnality or REAL skills <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> It can truly indicate whether or not you have a good... <[MICHEL] M.SH> ...and I know...it depends...! <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> chance of success within the company. <JOHN.MAIHOS> This sounds like a great topic for a special RTC! <JOHN.MAIHOS> Testing! <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Most time both sides are evaluated. <[MICHEL] M.SH> I agree... <JOHN.MAIHOS> If that answers your question, let';s move on.. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Personality and skills. <JOHN.MAIHOS> to janet who has a question about OBJECTIVES! <[Janet] J.ATTARD> Should people put objectives on resumes, or just use a skills or experience summary at top instead? <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> John? <JOHN.MAIHOS> I can take that one. <[MICHEL] M.SH> It does answer my question to a point but let's move on. <JOHN.MAIHOS> Then I'd like to hear from Joni too! <JOHN.MAIHOS> Here goes... <JOHN.MAIHOS> To me, an objective is pretty clear. <JOHN.MAIHOS> You want the job that I am offering. <JOHN.MAIHOS> While it's fun to speculate what you want to be some later time, <JOHN.MAIHOS> the answer to the immediate question is obvious. <JOHN.MAIHOS> I like the summary. <JOHN.MAIHOS> It should cotain those fun action verbs too! <[Janet] J.ATTARD> ah.. but how many? <JOHN.MAIHOS> Developed a software package... <JOHN.MAIHOS> All verbs is a bit too much. :) <[Janet] J.ATTARD> I've seen some resumes done by so-called career counselors that ooze action verbs and say nothing <[Janet] J.ATTARD> or maybe they just oozed adjectives <g> <JOHN.MAIHOS> Agreed. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Johgn.. <JOHN.MAIHOS> Too much of that stuff is sickening. <JOHN.MAIHOS> Mike? <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Objectives.... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> From the stand point of the applicant, should it be on the resume or the cover letter? <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Ga <JOHN.MAIHOS> Good question. <[MICHEL] M.SH> Another question. How would you define pro-active John? <JOHN.MAIHOS> I prefer to see a cover letter that includes things not in the resume. <JOHN.MAIHOS> That way I know that each response is tailored. <JOHN.MAIHOS> Joni also has a comment. Then we'll look at pro-active. <[Dave] D.HAIG> What should a cover letter contain then? <JOHN.MAIHOS> Joni? <[Joni] NASS> In my personal opinion... I feel that an objective should be to the point, but simple and not very long. State your point clearly and effectively <[Joni] NASS> Such as... <[Joni] NASS> Seek a position in a growth oriented company that will utilize my education, background and skills with an opportunity for growth. <[Joni] NASS> not necessarily "growth oriented" <JEFFCHASALOW> isn't that a little ridiculous....after all, who would want a position that wouldn't utilize his/her education, etc??? <[Joni] NASS> If you are zeroing in on specifics then state them. <JOHN.MAIHOS> :) <JOHN.MAIHOS> We have some positions that seem to need no education. <[Joni] NASS> Ofen times people get stuck in a job totally unrelated to their profession. Such as one I know <[Dave] D.HAIG> That's about what mine says. <[Gary] G.WARREN5> Jeff thats more common than you think. Espoecially these days. <[Janet] J.ATTARD> Doesn't that kind of objective statement just use up space on a page, though? <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> To me you can better tailor your objective in the cover letter. Each letter can be sent addressing the specific postion.... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> you are appling for. Your resume than willback this up. <JOHN.MAIHOS> Mike.... <JOHN.MAIHOS> I tend to agree with that concept. <JOHN.MAIHOS> I say leave the important stuff on the resume. <JOHN.MAIHOS> If you want to add in the cover letter, o.k., but not in the first graph. <JOHN.MAIHOS> Keep the important stuff out front. <JOHN.MAIHOS> You rememeber that stuff from grade school... <JOHN.MAIHOS> how to write a good letter! <JOHN.MAIHOS> Keepit simple and clear. <JOHN.MAIHOS> Comments? <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> I agree with you John! <JOHN.MAIHOS> NO TYPOS either! <[MICHEL] M.SH> No, I think the cover letter is the real eye opener... <JOHN.MAIHOS> Or is that TYOPS <[Gary] G.WARREN5> ! <JOHN.MAIHOS> M.SH is next, then Gary. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Michel <JOHN.MAIHOS> Let's go with Gary then. <[MICHEL] M.SH> For example as Career Objective: To secure a position in a pro-active sales environment (be the solution) <JOHN.MAIHOS> Oops <JOHN.MAIHOS> ok Michel thought we lost you for a sec. <JOHN.MAIHOS> Well.... <JOHN.MAIHOS> in my opinion, that's not good enough. <JOHN.MAIHOS> Who doesn't want to be in a pro-active environment. <JOHN.MAIHOS> I'd rather hear about your acciomplishments. <JOHN.MAIHOS> For example.. <[MICHEL] M.SH> Ythat comes next... <JOHN.MAIHOS> -Increased sales by 13% <JOHN.MAIHOS> -Was top sales producer 3 months in a row. <JOHN.MAIHOS> etc. <[MICHEL] M.SH> Got that covered in second heading... <JOHN.MAIHOS> Ah.. <JOHN.MAIHOS> As long as it's close to the top. <JOHN.MAIHOS> You have to catch my eye in the first few graphs. <[Dave] D.HAIG> That's the way mine goes too. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> But the first statement can turn a person off.... and <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> they will not read the rest of the reume closely... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> You are selling yourself to a perspective employer.... <[MICHEL] M.SH> Well I start with Career Objective, then Qualifications and experience and accomplishments -. Sounds OK? <JOHN.MAIHOS> I'd move accomplishment higher. <[MICHEL] M.SH> SoAhhhh... <[MICHEL] M.SH> THAT was probably the equation...THANKS! <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Gary, you have a question? <[Gary] G.WARREN5> I am curious about how to explain jobs that have multiple responsibilities that are really additional jobs. <[Gary] G.WARREN5> For example... <[Gary] G.WARREN5> If you are system admin, network manager, computer,technicial, analyst,,etc.. <JOHN.MAIHOS> O.K. <[Gary] G.WARREN5> which all have different responsibilites. <[Gary] G.WARREN5> Is it ok to put these <[Gary] G.WARREN5> in different job topics under the same company. Or should you just have one <[Janet] J.ATTARD> Skilled at managing multiple assignments at once <[Janet] J.ATTARD> <g> <[Gary] G.WARREN5> job description per company? <[Gary] G.WARREN5> Exactly. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Gary... <JOHN.MAIHOS> I will trust Mike's answer! <JOHN.MAIHOS> I apoligize for having to run. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Is this the only job that you have had? Or have you... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Thnaks John for being here. <[MICHEL] M.SH> Gotta go, Thanks both for your help. Bye <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> had other jobs that will show the growth... <[Gary] G.WARREN5> No Ive been in the field about 5 uears. @ companies . <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> into the position of sys manager? <[Gary] G.WARREN5> 2 companies. Sorry <[Gary] G.WARREN5> YUes But we are a small shop and are forced to wear many hats. <[Gary] G.WARREN5> Does that look good or bad? <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Than show a growth from the first to the second co. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Most employers want to see... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> 1. Accomplishments at each job... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> 2. Growth from one to the next job... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> If you are employed in a small company... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> the wearing of many hats is expected... but <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> more importantly is what is the new employer looking for and hitting those areas. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> go ahead. <[Gary] G.WARREN5> Is self study and outside education generally ok to put in a separate topic also.? <[Gary] G.WARREN5> Even if you don't use that training in your present job but the employer is <[Gary] G.WARREN5> looking for those skills? ga <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Only if it relates to the job you are applying for. <[Gary] G.WARREN5> And how should you word that? <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Generally on the last page under education... <[Gary] G.WARREN5> In the computer field it seems you have to know everything!!! <[Gary] G.WARREN5> AT least according to some ads I see. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> indicate that you have taken the following courses for certification or a degree. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Everbody wants that employee that knows more than the position requires..but <[Gary] G.WARREN5> Employers seem to be looking for generalists <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> there is another side to what a company is looking for. It is called the preferred qualifications which are higher than the required. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Janet, you have a comment? <[Janet] J.ATTARD> Yes.... <[Janet] J.ATTARD> In another window (love macintosh computers with lots of memory <g>)... <[Janet] J.ATTARD> I was just typing up a report that is going into the library.. <[Janet] J.ATTARD> a report from Robert Half International (recruiting firm) <[Janet] J.ATTARD> on INformation systems salaries and trends... <[Janet] J.ATTARD> backing up what you have noticed, Gary, is this.. from the report.. <[Janet] J.ATTARD> Professinals with a variety of IS skills -- technical support and programming, for example -- are eagerly sought. <[Gary] G.WARREN5> You mean about generalists? <[Janet] J.ATTARD> Corporations are also much less willing to train prospective employees, preferring instead to hire those whose skills perfectly match the systems and applications the organization uses. <[Janet] J.ATTARD> Yes, on the generalist <[Gary] G.WARREN5> Which leaves older IS workers out in the cold because of the unwillingness to retrain. <[Gary] G.WARREN5> No I havent read it but I am seeing it all the time. <[Janet] J.ATTARD> Anyone who is willing to retrain in any industry is going to be out in the cold <[Janet] J.ATTARD> The report will be in the Workplace library soon. <[Gary] G.WARREN5> I mean retraining by the company but you are right. Thanks <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> You are right Gary, the trend is back to the generalist...Specialists don't see the BIG picture. Only their small part. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Some one has to run the show. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Questions. <[Gary] G.WARREN5> Intresting developments. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> One ... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> word of caution.. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> on resumes... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Not every company has parteaken of this approach yet... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> so the more research you can do about the company... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> by talking to employees or end users... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> will benefit you in selling yourself to the company. <[Gary] G.WARREN5> Yes companies can throw you nasty surprises. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Any other questions? <[Gary] G.WARREN5> What they tell you is not always what you get. RESEARCH!!! <[Dave] D.HAIG> That's helpful if you live close to where you want to work! <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Even if you are not close... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> call the company and have them sell you their product or service! <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> You can still learn alot! <[Dave] D.HAIG> Agreed. <[Gary] G.WARREN5> I think you have to remember it is a two way street. YOU <[Joni] NASS> Nice suggestion <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Research in your library can pay off. <[Gary] G.WARREN5> have to sell yourself but be suspicious of a company that does not try to sell itself to you also. <[Gary] G.WARREN5> Personal experience! <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Good point... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Comments! <[Gary] G.WARREN5> IS two pages a kiss of death? <[Gary] G.WARREN5> If they are necessary? <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> No, 2 pages is quite normal today. <[Dave] D.HAIG> Whew! That's a relief! <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Anything over 2 pages can get too be to much. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Ideally... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Cover letter and 1 or 2 pages. <[Dave] D.HAIG> What about salary history and personal info? Should they be on your resume? <[Joni] NASS> I think it's difficult to squeeze several jobs with responsibilities onto one page -- may cover a "few" years. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> You are right Joni! <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Salary history should not be included in the resume... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> and personal info can be touchy.....example <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> What happens if you mention that you play golf... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> and the person that reads thje resume has never been able to hit a golf ball? Problem? <[Dave] D.HAIG> Then why do employer's always ask for it? <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> It might be!! <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Salary history? <[Dave] D.HAIG> Not that deep on info, just height, weight and birth, small stuff. <[Dave] D.HAIG> Yes on the salary history! <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> It can show growth along with job responsibilities....and <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> whether or not you fit into the budget! <[Dave] D.HAIG> gotcha. Room has no leader. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Height, weight, etc. should be left out. <[Gary] G.WARREN5> But arent companies just looking for reasons to weed out candidates resumes when they as for that stuff or fit you into a range? <[Janet] J.ATTARD> Mike, how do you know what the budget is? could you price yourself out (over or under) for a job you might otherwise get and want by ihncluding salary history? <[Dave] D.HAIG> Another question when you can. <[Gary] G.WARREN5> That knocks you out of the game before you have a chance to play. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> The reume process is for the weeding out of applicants... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> or more importantly from the company side... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> finding that candidate that best fits the job opening. <[Joni] NASS> Mike... what about adding some personal "attributes" at the end or wherever it fits. Such as: highly energetic - attention to detail - take responsibilities seriously - very organized -- etc. <[Gary] G.WARREN5> Shouldnt you be evasive on that and try to discuss that stuff in person. Ive always heard if a company will knock you out that way -- look for another comapny <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> All of the resumes that I have read over the years....everyone is highly energetic!<G> <[Joni] NASS> Yes, but there are some people who REALLY are... and need to get that across. <[Janet] J.ATTARD> Bet they're all highly organized too <[Gary] G.WARREN5> So the personal stuff is not usually seriously considered? <[Joni] NASS> some are. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> You got that right Janet!<G> <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> True Joni....but <[Gary] G.WARREN5> Because everyone says the same thing? <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> show it in the interview.... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> use the resume to highlight all of the acomplishments.... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> that you have acheived... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Your energy will show through from these. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Joni? <[Joni] NASS> Hmmmm <[Joni] NASS> In some ways I agree... and others --- not so sure. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> I'm not saying don't use these terms... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> just be consistent.... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> if you have acomplished many different thing m...OK be energetic.... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> if the ackomplishment list is shorter be a person that follows through,etc. <[Joni] NASS> On consulting prior to the resume... we make sure that they understand FULLY that they must be sincere - choice of adjectives is important. <[Joni] NASS> Sincerity for sure. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> True from your standpoint... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> For the applicant.... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> the terminology and adjetives used must be consistent! <[Joni] NASS> Yep.. real careful about that. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Any other comments? <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> In that case on behalf of John and myself I would like to thank everyone for being a part of our RTC.... <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> and join us for more!!!!! <[Dave] D.HAIG> Good info Mike thanks for your help. <[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Thanks for being here Dave! == END ==